I’m not sure yet if my club and I are coming down, but if so, I’ll definitely get in touch with you. We have limited funding, and have not even applied, but it does look like a very neat event. We’d all love to talk to other people, particularly about implementation of liberty-oriented policy. I’ve heard of RAWA [not surprisingly, in a women studies class]. It sounds like a worthwhile cause. What sort of thing do you think you might organize? I think associating libertarians with human rights causes is a very good idea. I often I run across those who think of the liberty movement as a threat to human rights, and so I see some strategic pragmatism in aligning libertarians with human rights activism and even private charities.
On another note, I’ve been trying to talk to libertarians and gauge their current satisfaction with the party, kind of get a feel of their opinions. I’ve been libertarian-leaning for some time, but only joined the LP just over a year ago. Lately, I’ve sensed some worrisome things in their emails. In addition to increased inner-party drama, it all has an air of cheap propaganda, with a recent bitter taste of social-conservatism I hadn’t noted before. There has been increased negativity, and a lot of useless anti-Obama (admittedly, mostly from Young American Libertarians) that I find mentally repelling.
I understand many reasons why this might be the case and what crowd they may be trying to appeal to, but I thought I’d ask if you noticed this or if you had heard of anyone complaining [I noted your William Gillis quotation]. Or even simply if you had any more thoughts you’d like to share (with me or the blogosphere).
-Elizabeth”
“Hi Elizabeth!
Do let me know if you and your “comrades” (?) are coming down this way anytime soon. I am glad you’re not interested in 21st century classical liberalism being identified with our nest of Sean Hannity/Ann Coulter inspired conservatives or social conservatives more generally. I don’t follow the politics of the LP, so I am not sure what people are saying about Obama as LP members. William Gillis is anti-Obama, but he’s not a social conservative. Arthur Silber has penned some pretty angry essays about him. You may already know of him, but you can view his website here: http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/. Alas, Arthur is a fervent atheist and gay man, so he’s got no paitence for cultural conservatives. You should read these essays of his:
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2003/11/in-praise-of-contextual-libertarianism.html
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2007/02/living-on-insideand-living-on-outside.html
May I ask what your opinion of Obama is? I certainly don’t see a problem with his stated opposition to the theocratic policies of the Christianist right. I’ll be happy to see him follow through in that department. It’d help to know more about your own development of Libertarian or individualist leanings. How far “left” do you consider yourself on the spectrum of Libertarian ideas? Where do you stand on the Ayn Rand question? Lol.
On RAWA and human rights/charity: I see support for them as a principled response to the present evils of the world. I am also interested in researching alternatives to welfare statism. It’s often on issues of potential for economic advancement and well being that left-liberals depart from classical liberals. I aim to end that.
Do you mind if I post this on my website or other blogs for the purposes of stimulating discussion?”
“Nick! I must have missed the email notification, although delayed responses seem to be a trend lately with me. I’ve been stretched pretty thin. Please feel free to post whatever. I’d be interested in participating in public discussion, time permitting.
Thank you for the Arthur Silber articles. I actually got a chance to read them today and enjoyed them a lot.
The Rand question has been a big one in my life for a number of years, and I think it’s about time I sat down and carefully thought about how to answer it again. Consider this a precursor to a longer, more thought-out response, addressing all of your questions.
My immediate reaction is to speak at length about my theories of who is attracted to O’ism and why, and to discuss the ways Rand is often interpreted in ways that seem to justify emotional immaturity or failed social interactions. While based in some empiricism, I’d have a hard time presenting such arguments. They’re mostly just suspicions.
Contextual libertarianism sounds like a much better approach. It’s dynamic and seems methodologically superior to the way I’ve seen some O’ists operate. The problem with reasoning “in the realm of the ethers” is that it’s easy to get caught in one isolated perspective, as I think the author correctly identifies. The role of culture and its interaction with the indivdual is extremely important, and I think sometimes libertarians tend to forget that not everyone shares their values, or gets value out of life in the same way. In my experience those drawn to extreme O’ism tend to be isolated on a number of planes, emotionally, intellectually, and socially, which I think contributes significantly to the formation of their political philosophy. That gulch is so attractive for a reason. Of course, this is a generalization, and I’ve been out of the libertarian social community for a few years now. I think the article was right, one should oscillate between context and principle in policy matters.
Elizabeth”
In light of Aster’s comment, I thought I’d post this exchange between I and a woman in NY. We’re discussing liberty ideas and conservatives. I was going to post it on Rad’s latest, but I didn’t want to entirely dominate the discussion there.
]]>Comments are unmoderated by default, but certain triggers may cause them to go into the moderation queue as a spam control measure. (Having had comments approved here in the past raises the bar for moderation; so future comments you leave should hopefully go through more smoothly.)
]]>My last personal comment too: I live in Silver Spring, Maryland right now. It’s a suburb of D.C.
]]>Out of respect for Rad, this will be my last such personal comment.
]]>The following summer I was at an IHS (Institute for Humane Studies) seminar in which I joined up with a group of folks comprised of a white Muslim female, a Romanian Marxist and assorted other European visitors. A fairly cosmopolitan crowd, though with regard to identity liberalism’s concerns, the Muslim woman is probelmatic because she has “internalized” an oppressive ideology. Well, she doesn’t think so, and had no patience for people like Ayann Hirsi Ali who would condescend to women who sport a headscarf out of modesty and generally religious considerations.
]]>Or in other words, Aster, not to be like a modern anglo saxon conservative :)
]]>http://adamtebble.com/identity_liberalism
Essentially, the recognition that one’s community, state, or nation is of a given liberal identity that is worth preserving against illiberal elements inside and out. It fuses nationalism, which the left dislikes, with a progressive cultural program. This isn’t a very new idea of course, but I think it’s become more salient since 9/11 and the split on the left you speak of.”
You’re right that it’s not a new idea. The original “Progressives” of the TR or Woodrow Wilson type were major imperialists with purportedly liberal intentions — as far as their official rhetoric goes. In mainstream American political economy or history, they are viewed as part of the left. That just goes to show that radical libs are really outside of conventional understandings of left/right.
On Libertarians:
The Libertarians I know around here are pretty cosmopolitan. They do tend to welcome people of diverse philosophic and spiritual approaches to life, but I’ve never met a vehement racist or anything. The ones I’ve spoken the most to are fairly respectful, curious, convinced that they can persuade ordinary people to support their ideas, and confidently honest. I’d also note that local crasher in chief Pete E made good on his promise to record the SWOP march ( :
There are Libertarian functions devoted to certain things or people I am less interested in. I tend not to go to them, but I generally like the company of individual Libertarians without a conservative moralistic streak. Despite not really understanding Anthony Gregory’s Christianity or abortion position, I’d be close friends with him. Most of my family I am close to around here are all “Reds” of sorts. They have individualistic senses of life, but they don’t agree with Libertarians entirely on questions of the nature of freedom or political economy.
I’ve thought about Aster’s writings on the state of Libertarianism and compared their contents to my own experiences. What I’ve discovered so far is that they don’t entirely match up. That said, I can support her views with some anecdotal tidbits, but I can’t violate the participant’s privacy. There was a speech by Thomas J. Dilorenzo around here. I thought of asking Charles to send me his post on some of his odd comments on homosexuality, but I decided not to go to the speech. None of the Libertarians I’ve talked to around here have a problem with it, but there may be tendencies to overlook these issues due to similar views on political economy.
]]>